Leo Dion (home): Welcome to
another episode of Empower Apps.

I'm your host Leo Dion.

Today I'm joined by Evan Stone.

Hey Evan, thank you again for coming
on for this very special episode.

Evan Stone (guest): Thanks
for having me on, Leo.

Appreciate it.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

Before we begin, I'll let you
go ahead and introduce yourself.

Evan Stone (guest): Okay, yeah, I'm Evan
Stone and I live in California and I'm

an iOS developer for MartianCraft and I
also have a podcast called iOS Dev Break

and I'm also working on a A community,
a virtual co working community for

iOS, Swift, Mac developers, etc.

Called Swift Remote Studio.

And that is still going well.

And so, yeah that's pretty
much about me right now.

I have some side projects and things
going on too, but mostly what I've

been focusing on is those other
things and the jobby job work.

Wonderlust,

Leo Dion (home): Cool.

We had you on previously.

Was it last year to talk about UI kit?

So I'm really happy to have you back on.

You've been an awesome guest and we
have a very special episode today

to talk about the Apple event.

So what are your like overall
thoughts on how it went?

Evan Stone (guest): let's see I thought
it went, I thought it went really well.

Actually, it's funny, my
reactions afterwards were that

I wasn't really, the things that
impressed me about it were not

the things that I was expecting.

So, they threw some curves in there
that I thought were pretty cool.

And so I thought it was
a great event, actually.

It went way better than I was expecting,
because I thought it was going to be

ho hum, like, I don't know what they
can really, what can they beat from

last year and what can they, Do that
will be more impressive than the vision

pro, which they announced at WWDC.

So, but I think they, they
did a pretty good job.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah, I think
it was not what I, it was

what I expected and not what I
expected both at the same time.

What you're saying.

And like you said, I was impressed
by things that I didn't think I

was going to be impressed with.

And I think we talked offline about
like my plans as far as purchasing

and now I'm like, okay, I was wrong.

Evan Stone (guest): Right?

Me too.

Me

Leo Dion (home): there was
something I was holding out for

that was like, unless I have that,
I wouldn't buy a brand new one.

Now I'm like, yeah, okay,
now I got to buy a brand new

one and we'll get into it.

But yeah, this was the year I was
planning on spending some money,

so I'd already saved up for it.

And, yeah, so we'll start

Evan Stone (guest): was smart.

Leo Dion (home): we'll start off
talking about let's start off

talking about the the Apple watch.

Let's go with that.

So I had been holding out for
an Apple watch for quite a while

because quite frankly there really
hasn't been anything new in like

the three or four years, like
other than a bigger size screen.

It's really been boring.

Are you in how involved of
an Apple watch user are you?

Evan Stone (guest): I'm, there
are probably different levels,

right, of Apple Watch usage.

I use it all the time
for my fitness stuff.

I have the watch on all the time.

And I am currently rocking a Series 4.

And, what I, what yeah, and with
the Apple event coming up...

My plans were originally, see
what the Ultra would offer.

But probably I would go with the series
nine whatever that was, whatever,

beforehand, I had mostly just because I
wanted to get something that, if I could

just replace the straight up, with the
series nine the wider 45 millimeter or

whatever, then I would probably be okay.

The thing that was really
troubling to me recently, and

this happened just within the
last maybe two weeks, is that my.

Battery levels, it just started
dropping like plummeting.

It's almost like it knew that

Leo Dion (home): you're not
on the beta or anything.

Evan Stone (guest): It started before
the beta and then I switched to

the beta and it seemed to improve
a little bit and then it went Back

Leo Dion (home): Okay.

Okay.

Evan Stone (guest): the way it was
before I think it's just from age,

because you know It's a series four.

So that's what four or five years
ago, you know that I got it.

So

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): So yeah, so I
was really looking forward to seeing

what the options were for this year,

Leo Dion (home): So what did
you end up going with, Evan?

Evan Stone (guest): I haven't made
any purchases yet, but the problem is

Leo Dion (home): some people.

Evan Stone (guest): yeah, unlike
some people so I really feel like

I want to go with the ultra too.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah,

Evan Stone (guest): I'm sure we can
talk about what those, the features are,

But I w I was already
leaning towards an ultra.

But, before this, and so now yeah,
I don't know, there were some

things there that made me think,
okay, I'm gonna do the Ultra 2.

I, I, the reason I didn't do an Ultra
last year was because I tend to shy away

from whatever the V1 version of a thing

Leo Dion (home): Same here.

Same here.

Evan Stone (guest): having said that,
Vision Pro is probably a V1 thing that

would be advantageous to take a look at.

But But, so I thought I'll just wait
for the Ultra 2, and then, I don't know.

So, my current thinking is, if I
can swing it somehow I'll go for

the Apple Watch Ultra 2, I think.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

So I think I was leaning.

So I was definitely going
to buy a new watch this year

because this is the first year
where we have a brand new chip.

Finally.

Every like 6, 7, 8 have all
been the same chip and it's

like totally been disappointing.

That they haven't really
updated the processor at all.

I was leaning more towards the Ultra
as somebody who develops apps for

the watch, as well as the fact, just
surprised how many people have Ultras.

And it's like, okay,
like this is actually

Evan Stone (guest): the wild,

Leo Dion (home): People like
it, people find it useful.

So for me, it's like.

Yeah, this is actually a
reasonable device to buy because

everybody else is buying it.

Totally not, I'm not going
to be an avid outdoorsman.

I'm not going to go deep sea diving.

But, like, I really like the Apple Watch
and I wanna take it to the next level.

Let's do this.

So, the thing that I was really
impressed with on Ultra 2, honestly, was

that watch face that they showed off.

Most of the new watch faces that
come out are garbage, quite frankly.

And they're a little bit novelty
acts with like, okay, I like Peanuts

just as much as the next guy,

Evan Stone (guest): right

Leo Dion (home): come on.

Like,

How much Toy Story,
like, it's just like...

Yeah, but like this new
watch face looks fantastic.

It's exactly what I want, is I want
a watch face digital clock on it.

I can read an analog clock, but
when I flip my wrist, I don't want

to do it, like, I don't want to
have to think about it, right?

And it has like a ton of information
out there, and I'm just like,

this is exactly what I want.

This is what I want, like, this
is the watch face I want, and I'm

like, yeah, I'm, I was already
leaning towards an Ultra but that

kind of sealed the deal for me.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah, I was
I do Well, I haven't recently

because I got a new bike accident
last year, but I was doing a lot

of You know gearing up towards
doing more mountain biking stuff.

And so the ultra was really appealing
to me But then I had that accident

It was at the beginning of last
year and so I just thought I just

I'll wait and but now I'm starting
to gear back up, no pun intended.

And so I am thinking more in
terms of more fitness oriented

activities and having a more
durable watch to take on those.

And

Leo Dion (home): life!

The battery

Evan Stone (guest): battery life.

That's exactly what I was just
going to say is the battery life.

Yeah

Leo Dion (home): two, like the
other thing, yeah, I do running,

I've done a half marathon, so I'm
hoping to get back into running

so, well, that would be super
helpful for me what was I gonna say?

Oh, I was just gonna say, like,
yeah, you're never gonna see an ad

of somebody sitting on the crapper
playing what's a good, what's a

really horrible game that people play
where it has, like, all the gambling

Evan Stone (guest): Oh, I don't know.

Leo Dion (home): What's a jewel?

There's like a

gem

Evan Stone (guest): Oh, yeah.

Bejewel.

That way.

And that's the classic one.

I don't know what they do now.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah, you're
never gonna see one of those ads.

Cause that ad in the beginning
was all like people getting their

lives saved by having an iPhone.

It's all this inspirational
stuff, and then, like, very

little of it is like, oh.

I love the iPhone 14 because
it lets me doom scroll on x.

com.

Like you're just never
going to see that in an ad.

So it's funny, just like reality
and like their ads in the beginning.

Sorry.

That was a total sideline, but yeah,

Evan Stone (guest): it's true.

I'm looking at the screenshots
I took of that initial thing.

And yeah, it's very, yeah.

The inspirational videos that they
have at the beginning about how Apple

watch and iPhone save these people.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): yeah.

Very Apple.

Leo Dion (home): And of course,
like, all the games, they're

all like these fancy 3D games.

It's not like, Oh, this game really
helped us catch the whale and we made

a ton of money with these addictive...

It's like, no.

It's like, let's do, let's talk about
really fancy games and stuff, so.

Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to it,
so the iPhone, you can order the Apple

Watch Ultra now, probably the Series
9 now, and it will be available on

the 22nd, so, yeah, anything else you
want to mention about the Apple Watch?

Evan Stone (guest): So yeah,
they have the new processor.

So that's awesome.

But it's not only on the ultra,
but also the series nine they're

claiming all day battery life, which
I mean, I was getting really good

battery life before before, before
my watch started taking a nosedive.

I thought that was interesting that
you can do name drop with the watch.

Maybe that was something they
mentioned at WWDC that I missed.

Leo Dion (home): Think so.

That goes into the whole
new ultra wideband,

Evan Stone (guest): Yes.

Leo Dion (home): think.

So the ultra wideband chip was
introduced on iPhone 11, so now

we're getting a new version of that.

And I think, so A, you get
better find my phone, right?

And then on top of it, like,
I think the name drop on the

watch is a new thing as well.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

Cause they, they're

Leo Dion (home): believe you
need the new hardware or possibly

their soft, they're only going
to allow it almost either way.

Like I think namedrop was definitely
an iOS 17 thing, but as far as

like, whether it's something like
on the new hardware for the Apple

watch, I'm not sure about that.

Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): evidently,
or at least assisted by it,

because they did mention Series
9 has the ultra wideband in it.

So,

Leo Dion (home): they'll, I
assume it's part of the SOC.

I would assume.

Evan Stone (guest): so I wasn't, yeah,
I wasn't sure if that was completely

new, if, I'm assuming it was new with
the new S9 system on a chip thing.

So, so that's cool.

That's, yeah and so you get that
benefit whether you're on the 9 or

the Ultra, which is Pretty cool.

Leo Dion (home): No new se this year.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah, I
thought that was interesting.

And what do you think of the double tap?

Leo Dion (home): so I was gonna,

Evan Stone (guest):
that's supported on both.

Leo Dion (home): I put a link in the
notes because this sounds a lot like

something that they've introduced.

That they've been talking
about for the last year or so.

And there's this, like,
Assistive touch stuff,

Evan Stone (guest): right.

Leo Dion (home): they have briefly
touched upon and had some videos on.

And I'm curious about like how
it's related to assistive touch.

Double tap is awesome.

Like I wish there was
more stuff like that.

As far as like, just allowing you to do
more gestures similar to what they're

doing with the vision pro, right.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah,
it's a, it's exactly like it.

It's the same gesture.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

And I wish there was more
stuff like that because.

I just wish, I think I
mentioned it in the Slack.

Like I wish I could do double
tap, so I don't have to take

the call and it just goes away.

I would do the opposite thing.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

Can we have double

Leo Dion (home): I'm in the
middle of something right now.

Can I not answer this call?

Like,

Evan Stone (guest): Dismiss the call.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah, exactly.

Have you looked at any of
that assistive touch stuff?

Evan Stone (guest): haven't, but
I thought it was very interesting

when it, when they announced it,
because like you said, I think

that was a year ago or two years.

I don't, I'm not sure how long
ago, but but yeah, it's it's

amazing that they can track that.

On with the watch, you know what
you're doing with your hand and

that it that they have sensors in
there that can actually do that.

That's remarkable to me and I don't
do any, watch development, but it

would be interesting to see what
options are available for that.

If you can tap into that,
what you can do with it

Leo Dion (home): let's see
what else I had in my notes.

Evan Stone (guest): That's an
accessibility option that even

Leo Dion (home): Yeah, it is.

Evan Stone (guest): average watch
developer can tap into and do cool stuff

with, it'd be pretty, pretty impressive.

Leo Dion (home): Do you want to
talk about the environment stuff?

It was a cool skit.

I liked the

Evan Stone (guest): we could, yeah.

That's what I would love.

I, yeah, I thought that video was the
the environmental video was was fun.

I'm not, I think it's good that Apple is
doing all of these environmental things.

It's not necessarily a reason
for me to buy Apple products

because of that, but I think it's
great that they're doing that.

And and that video with
Octavia Spencer was that was.

That was great.

I, in fact, I want to watch it again
just to see that because it was so

entertaining And it made you think
about things like, huh, I wouldn't, it's

interesting that they're doing these
environmental things like the carbon

footprint elimination Going carbon
neutral with Apple Watch Both of the

Series 9 and the Ultra Depending on what
band you get and those kinds of things

are they're interesting and it's great
that they're being very conscientious

about that and it makes you think a
little bit more i think about the things

that we do and you know do we find
that important i you know i think it's

really cool that they're not only making
these amazing products but they're

also doing those initiatives as well

Leo Dion (home): Two things.

One is I usually get the Nike watch and

Evan Stone (guest): oh do you okay

Leo Dion (home): looks awesome.

Evan Stone (guest): yeah

Leo Dion (home): it's too bad I
will not be getting a Nike watch,

but I liked the little speckle
of recycled material in the band.

I thought that looked really cool.

And then the other, what's that?

Evan Stone (guest): The Nike faces?

I think did I miss I think I looked
away for a second and they showed

some of the Nike faces and then the
last one that they showed in that

video, I was like, what is that?

Oh, it's a Nike face.

I won't be getting a Nike
watch, so I won't have access

to that, I don't think.

Unless there's a way to get
the access to those faces.

I didn't, I don't

Leo Dion (home): I think they're,
even though they're software,

I think they're locked out of

Evan Stone (guest): Right.

Like, it knows what type of watch it

Leo Dion (home): Sorry, you
spent too much money on a watch.

You can't get the

Evan Stone (guest): Right.

Leo Dion (home): And then, yeah, I I
always wonder, and I don't know if you

know the answer to this or if anybody
else does, feel free to chime in,

but how does the environmental stuff
affect, like, the fact that Apple

like they assemble a lot of stuff, but
they don't really make a lot of stuff.

If you know what I mean?

Like the screen comes from Samsung,
the chip comes from Foxconn.

Like how does that carry down their
environmental initiatives when it

comes to the actual, like whatever you

Evan Stone (guest): Their third
party folks that they work

Leo Dion (home): or whatever.

Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah, I don't know.

It's a good question.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

That's a good question.

But Hey.

Evan Stone (guest): Apple strikes me
as the type to be able to use their

influence, to motivate the people they
work with to go in that direction.

Whether they would or not, or
whether they do or not, I don't know.

But throw a little more money
at the problem, maybe that

would help, or I don't know.

It's an interesting question, though.

Leo Dion (home): IPhone 15.

Are you buying an iPhone 15?

Evan Stone (guest):
It was not on my list.

Until I saw two things.

Even the USB C was not
really enough to motivate me.

I thought that's great.

I love the convenience of
now my iPad Pro and my, the

phone would have the same.

And even the AirPods Pro.

I thought that was great too.

They converted that as well.

But so iPhone 15, I
was not planning on it.

Until I saw a, the titanium

Leo Dion (home): Well,
that's a pro that's a pro.

Let's just talk about the

Evan Stone (guest): Oh 15.

Okay.

15.

15.

Regular.

No, it's not on my radar.

Leo Dion (home): My initial thought
was like, I'd rather get an iPhone

14 Pro that has a bunch of other
bells and whistles attached to it,

than get an iPhone 15 at this point.

Because it's like, yeah, you save 100.

I want to try out the Dynamic Island.

Like, that's the thing, is I have
an old enough phone now that, and

going back to what you said, like,
the V1 is never like, I'd rather

get the V2 of something, and Dynamic
Island is a classic example of that.

So it was like, I'm either
going to get a 14 or a 15.

So, yeah, so like, I just don't like
you get so many features with the 14

pro over the 15, like the promotion
always on screen, probably like it

just, and probably the cameras honestly,
probably better, even though there

might be some more fancy machine
learning in the 15, I would assume

you get a better camera on the 14 pro.

So it's like, yeah, I don't know.

That's my thinking.

Evan Stone (guest): I got the
sense that it's, it felt like

the camera from the 14 pro.

Was in the 15, but I
could be wrong about that.

I'm not a, camera photography
guy So I don't keep track of,

excuse me, I don't keep track
of all of those details, super

Leo Dion (home): the 15 Pro has
three lenses as opposed to the 14,

er, 15 has only two lenses, the
14 Pro always has the three lens.

So, you, I don't see how you would
ever get a better camera, technically.

So, yeah, right.

Evan Stone (guest): No, that's
probably a good strategy If you're

trying, if you're just deciding
between those two options, like,

at this point 14 Pro would probably
still be a better option than a 15 Or

Leo Dion (home): yeah, so,

Evan Stone (guest): the 15
plus I totally forgot about

the 15 plus, you know that

Leo Dion (home): do you like,
are you a big screen person

or a small screen person?

Evan Stone (guest): yeah, I'm
I've always had ever since the

six plus I've gone with the
oh, I'm sorry I take that back.

I did get an iPhone 10, but the
next phone after the iPhone 10 I

was back to the large displays.

So So, yeah I have a 14 pro max right
now, and I think I'm gonna stick with

that even though every once in a while
I, like if I go, if I ask my wife for

her phone, she has a 12 PRO, and I go
this is actually not a bad form factor

So, I

Leo Dion (home): What do you feel like
you gain out of I have a Max as well,

like, and I don't know if I'd go Max,
say, with Max or go with regular Pro.

What do you like, what's
your feeling on it?

Evan Stone (guest): I just,
I like the larger screen.

I feel like it.

It makes things, yeah, there's just
more to it, right, and it has a

slightly better camera, also, I think,

Leo Dion (home): right, yeah, that's
true, that is true, right, right.

So let's get

Evan Stone (guest): about that, but,

Leo Dion (home): yeah, let's
get into the Pro so why what

entices you about a 15 Pro?

Evan Stone (guest): Okay, yeah,
so the 15 Pro, for me, that, that

material, that titanium, having a, it's
stronger, lighter, thinner borders.

Made out of the same stuff
the Mars Rover is made out of.

No, that's not really
a selling point for me.

But the brush texture, it's a
really awesome looking phone.

Even though, I put mine in a case,
so I probably wouldn't even see that.

But but having a lighter
phone would be nice.

Yeah,

Leo Dion (home): Yeah so, yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): then also the
other feature for the pros for me was

the Camera, and I don't know what do
we want to do the spoiler thing with

the spatial camera So doing spatial
video for me that was the one Thing

that I saw that I thought oh now I
have to upgrade at least I think I do

Leo Dion (home): I think that
was the thing that I was like,

well, it sounds like they're not
going to even have that this year.

That I'm like, I'll just get the 14 Pro.

And then when they announced
that today, I was just like...

Yeah, I have to get the 15 pro.

Is it only on the max or is it on both?

Evan Stone (guest): I think it's on both

Leo Dion (home): Okay.

Okay.

But the fifth,

Evan Stone (guest):
That's my understanding.

Leo Dion (home): the max is
the one that has the six X

optical zoom, is that correct?

Evan Stone (guest): I think so.

Leo Dion (home): Okay.

This is what happens when you
record right after the event.

Let me look real quick.

Evan Stone (guest): looking at the

Leo Dion (home): Come
on, camera, pro camera,

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah,
where is the camera?

Leo Dion (home): digital zoom,
optical zoom on the pro is only 3x

optical zoom on the max is 5x 3x

Evan Stone (guest): Three X on the pro.

And then,

Leo Dion (home): and no 3d
sensor shift optical image

stabilization and autofocus.

I assume that 3d thing is
probably for spatial video.

I'm gonna assume that and I
could totally be wrong and

somebody can call me out on it.

But my, my my thinking is,
I think you can only do

spatial video on the Pro Max.

Cause I don't see spatial...

Spatial audio, but they don't
say anything about spatial video.

Evan Stone (guest): oh, that's
not even on the tech specs.

Leo Dion (home): yeah,
that's what I'm looking at.

Because I assume that's a software
thing, probably, that will be in 17.

2 at this point.

So, yeah.

Spatial video.

It's on the first part.

So, because that's a software
thing that isn't available yet.

Evan Stone (guest): I bet if we went
back into the event video and checked

Leo Dion (home): Take spatial videos on
the 15 Pro and relive them on the Apple.

So maybe that is on either one.

Evan Stone (guest): I would hope so.

Leo Dion (home): But you like the
bigger phone anyway, what do you care?

Evan Stone (guest): I know.

I know.

though I've been thinking of, okay.

So.

Yes, I like the bigger phone, but
having tried the smaller one, I've also

liked, it's an interesting form factor.

For me, it would feel like a little
bit downsizing, but it could play

into the strategy of buying this
year's smaller phone and then being

a, doing the thing where, I could
pass on the pro from this year.

To my wife who prefers a smaller
phone next year, and then just

do that kind of cycle where

Leo Dion (home): Gotcha and
then that way you and your

wife are on the same size and

Evan Stone (guest): Exactly.

Yeah.

I've been toying around with that idea.

I've also been thinking about
doing the upgrade program,

if that's a thing still.

I don't I thought it was

Leo Dion (home): so how
often do you buy a new phone?

Evan Stone (guest): I don't
really buy a phone all that often.

But with an upgrade program like
that, I don't know, I might be

inclined to, to do that every year.

I don't

Leo Dion (home): Okay.

Evan Stone (guest): I want
to see how that all works.

I've every every year I well not
every year, but whenever I am

going to search for a phone, I
look at the specs or the details

of that and I think not this time.

So,

Leo Dion (home): yeah, I think
last year, so the iPhone 11

pro max was my last phone.

And I actually bought that used.

That's my current phone.

I actually bought it used the year of
the iPhone 12 because I just was not

impressed with anything on the 12th.

And I was like, I want dark.

So I had a I had a 10 S before that.

Evan Stone (guest): Oh, okay.

Leo Dion (home): And that
I had bought brand new.

And then before that I bought
the eight plus brand new.

I did not buy a 10 cause I
wanted to save some money.

I didn't really care about.

Face ID and all that stuff.

But the iPhone 11 pro, I was like,
I had to get that because I really

wanted the dark at night photos.

And then everything since then, other
than maybe the dynamic Island, there

really hasn't been anything that's like
enticed me and then just the battery.

Gotten worse.

It's a five year old phone,
as you might imagine.

And like, I wanted something with a
dynamic island and I figured there's

been enough upgrades in the last
three or four years, that's worth it.

And it's like, okay, so this year
it's either 14 pro or 15 pro.

And like you said, spatial video.

That's it.

Like that does it for me.

Evan Stone (guest): Yep.

Leo Dion (home): the, there's a bunch
of other stuff that I liked about the

pro, but really that spatial video
thing is the thing I was waiting on.

I was like, I'll buy a 14 and
the next year they'll come out

with spatial video, but now they
already have it out this year.

So like now I'm like, I gotta get it.

I gotta get the new one.

So yeah.

How much space do you usually get?

Evan Stone (guest): Typically
I think I've been edging up, I

think I have a 512 right now.

I, but I think I probably could have
got a 2 56 and not, I would've, I

would be creeping up to, filling
it up, but, or maybe I am over it.

Anyway, so I'm happy with the five 12.

I think that was the right
decision on this last one.

Leo Dion (home): price

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

So

Leo Dion (home): 1TB, unless I could
get all my photos on there, which I

can't because I have too many photos,
like, I think I'm just gonna stick

with 512 again and it's perfectly fine.

Evan Stone (guest): yeah.

And if, yeah.

Well then we have the spatial video
thing of like how dense is that?

I don't know.

Leo Dion (home): Well, I don't know
if you know this, but Apple likes

to make money off of services, and
they offered a new service this year,

Evan Stone (guest): Yes.

Leo Dion (home): the 6TB plan.

So, yeah, I think they know
exactly what they're doing here,

Evan Stone (guest): I was
really happy about that.

Leo Dion (home): No, I'm happy
about it too, because I'm sick

Evan Stone (guest): so

Leo Dion (home): out of space.

Evan Stone (guest): right?

So all our, all my family is on
a two terabyte and I've, I just

checked, maybe I want to say
maybe a month ago or whatever.

And I was concerned that.

Oh, no two terabytes, the limit and

Leo Dion (home): How many
people are we talking here?

Evan Stone (guest): and it's just
three of us, but my daughter takes

a lot of video and she shares a lot
of videos and gets a lot of, so a

lot of her video stuff ends up in in
iCloud and I have quite a bit too.

So, so the fact that they're
introducing new plans.

is such a welcome change.

I'm really glad that they're doing that.

Leo Dion (home): So the two older
daughters have now devices of their own.

And by devices, an old iPhone
and an old Apple watch.

So we're not quite at
a point where we are.

Taking up a lot of space.

However yeah, I don't, they, do
they, what's the max right now on

the number of people in your family?

As you might, as I have a lot of people
in my family, so that's why I asked

Evan Stone (guest): Right.

I don't know.

Is

Leo Dion (home): But luckily
they're youngins, so they

don't really have accounts.

I can see.

In a few years that becoming an issue.

I'll have to file a
feedback back item for that.

We'll see.

But yeah, if you have a daughter
who takes a lot of Video?

That's, yeah, I could see that eat away.

Especially spatial video
in the next year or two.

Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

And unfortunately, they haven't
changed the iCloud plus information.

So if you go to apple.

com iCloud, it still says it has
two terabytes as the top end.

So.

Leo Dion (home): So did they, explain
again, do they up everybody's to six?

Or do you have to pay more for six?

Evan Stone (guest): Oh, that
is a really good question.

Let me, let's see if I
have that screenshot.

I got the cents that we had to pay.

Leo Dion (home): I would
assume Apple would not.

Evan Stone (guest): I would,
yeah, I'd assume that we just

have to pay more for the 6 and 12.

Leo Dion (home): I
would assume so as well.

Evan Stone (guest): So, but, I'm, oh,
I'm glad that they didn't do, yeah,

so it's, yeah, it's, so they still
have the 2 and then there's 6 and 12.

They don't mention any prices there.

But my assumption is that you just
pay more and you get more space.

I'm glad they didn't do 2, 4, 6.

So now we have a lot more space here.

This is great.

Leo Dion (home): Right.

Evan Stone (guest): Of course, I
haven't seen the prices yet, so I

may not be that great, ultimately.

Leo Dion (home): Anything
else you want to talk about

concerning the event today?

Evan Stone (guest): Let's see.

I didn't know if, did we want
to talk about the A 17 at all?

I don't have much to...

Leo Dion (home): the same.

Evan Stone (guest): Talk about
it other than, oh, it's, we

haven't, it's a new processor and

Leo Dion (home): the
three millimeter one?

Evan Stone (guest):
Yeah, three nanometer.

So that's a, that's a big.

A big deal.

No.

I'm not one of these processor spec
type people who watches that, but

the smaller that gets, the more
they can fit and it makes it, they

can do more, they can be faster,
more cores and that kind of stuff.

And so it looks like they're still
trying to push the envelope on that.

It sounds like they did some
really good stuff with the GPU

higher frame rates, ray tracing.

The ray tracing demo
was pretty impressive.

I'm not a real gamer, so I don't I
didn't really have much to compare

against, but it looked cool, and I
was thinking in terms of Vision Pro.

Like, maybe that's something that
is a byproduct of that work too.

Leo Dion (home): Well,
the Vision Pro is an

Evan Stone (guest): Vision
Pro's gonna be, yeah, M2, yeah.

Leo Dion (home): Or M2, yeah, right.

Evan Stone (guest): yeah, so, but,
at this point they're all cousins,

so they probably share ideas and
design and that kind of stuff.

But, Oh, we, you know
what we didn't talk about?

We didn't talk about the action.

We didn't talk about the action button.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): and the phone.

And so what do you think about that?

Leo Dion (home): It's nice.

It's good that we moved it.

Like, let's be honest.

Most people silence their phones and
never, like, Unless you're people

who don't silence their phones tend
to be not very technically savvy.

So it's nice to see that you can
add, like, now you have an action

button that you can customize.

Like there's a, there's definitely a lot
of great ideas that they talked about.

And then, I assume that their
shortcut implementation as well.

What did you think about it?

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

So I'm thinking the same line of
thought that you were just talking

about, which is that at first I
thought, well, why would I want that?

I really like having the hardware
silence button, but then I thought.

I like literally never turn it off.

I always have it silenced.

So, so then I started
thinking, well, actually that

makes a lot of sense to me.

I would be happy to have that.

In my control center, I would,
silencing, if I could have that

in my control center, just pull
down silence, I'm fine with that.

And then have the side button
be used for other things.

I think that's great.

Like the photo, using it for it to
take pictures or the shortcut thing.

I'm not, I'm, again, I'm not a
huge shortcut and I'm not a power

user with shortcuts, but it could
be cool, I guess to to use that.

Leo Dion (home): and I'm curious if
you can like customize it to be like.

One tap does this, long tap
does that, double tap does this,

triple tap does this, like, I
don't know, I would assume so.

So, yeah, I, we're both, we're
getting two action buttons.

Assuming you get an ultra, like, so,

Evan Stone (guest): thinking
the same thing about the ultra.

Leo Dion (home): So, yeah there's
a lot you could do with ultra.

Or the action

Evan Stone (guest): accessible to us
as developers is the action button

accessible to us on Apple watch ultra?

Okay, so that's cool.

So maybe it would be
available to us as well.

This is the action button on
iPhone 15 Pro So, it opens up

some interesting possibilities.

Again, that's, it's not
really a selling point to me.

It's cool and it'll
be interesting to see.

And it, by default, it
acts as a silent button.

So that's fine.

Leo Dion (home): I think it's
I think it's good that we don't

have a hardware switch that may
be allowing damage to an iPhone.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

Leo Dion (home): in kind of the same
way that we got rid of a hardware

switch that Hardware home button and
switch that to in between getting rid

of the home button, we switch that to
software button, so I think like that

to me, like, Hey, if it reduces water
damage or anything else, go for it.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense.

Leo Dion (home): People
don't buy ringtones anymore.

So if you wanted to buy a ringtone,
unfortunately you can't really

have a ringtone for iPhone 15 pro.

So, yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): We didn't really
discuss the USB C stuff, did we?

Or,

Leo Dion (home): We did it!

Thank you, Evan.

Because everybody has been talking
about it for weeks beforehand,

so it's like, it totally was
like, yeah, we know it's USB C.

So, iPhone 15 gets USB C, but
it's USB 2 speeds, I believe.

So it's basically no faster
than what you get in a

Evan Stone (guest): Oh, I see.

Okay.

Leo Dion (home): The Pro,
you can get a Thunderbolt

cable, and then now you can...

It'll actually, like, be Thunderbolt
speeds, which is, I think, a thousand

times faster than what USB 2 is.

I, that was something that interested
me based on the rumors, because I

would be curious to see if it's a
lot faster to debug on an iPhone

Pro with a Thunderbolt cable.

And also, as Apple watch developer
it's better, but still could

be even more, more better.

So I'd be curious about that.

But yeah, yeah.

What do you think?

Evan Stone (guest): I didn't catch
the thing about the Thunderbolt,

but now that totally makes sense.

I thought it was just USB 3, but if
it's Thunderbolt, then that would make

their sales pitch about the, doing
video straight to an external drive.

Like an external SSD or whatever,
that would make a lot of sense

being able to and with that high,

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

The extra external SSD or
external hard drive is amazing.

That's going to be

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah.

Yeah, that, no that's really cool.

Not that I would ever use it,
but for people who are doing

video that's pretty cool.

And so USB C would enable that.

You can't do it with lightning.

The, I thought just on practical
terms having, I guess we did

mention this before but AirPods
Pro 2, the new version also is USB

C and I thought interesting too.

They're the the cabled AirPods.

They're having a USB C version of
that too but that makes sense because

Leo Dion (home): does
that come with the iPhone?

Evan Stone (guest): one.

No, I don't think it comes anymore.

No.

Yeah, you'd have to buy it separately.

Leo Dion (home): So finally you can
get external storage for your iPhone.

Take that Android.

Evan Stone (guest): that's right.

Leo Dion (home): No ringtones,
but we have external storage now.

Yay!

Evan Stone (guest): Ha.

Right.

Oh my goodness.

Yeah.

You could have massive
thunderbolt storage.

Leo Dion (home): Could you just
imagine like 12 south or like

one of these companies coming
out with like New hard drive case

for the iPhone just what is it?

Just like a external power battery
thing you have now external hard

drive and then that's your phone Maybe
make it look like it one of those

nice satellite phones from the 80s.

Yeah.

Evan Stone (guest): Exactly.

Yeah, totally.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah, do you want
to talk about Swift Remote Studio?

Evan Stone (guest): Sure yeah, we
can talk about that for a little bit,

because the last time we chatted, I
think we did talk about it, and at

that point, it was things went a little
bonkers, and I wasn't sure I wanted

to continue with it, right, so I I
was all, there was all this buildup.

I got like 141 people joined
to V1 of Swift Remote Studio.

And then then it really turned out that
nobody wants that as a service, right?

Nobody wants to pay for that,
for co working virtual service.

So I thought, well, okay, let's
just go back and fall back and see

what makes the most sense for today.

And what people would join.

And so I thought, well, maybe
not a coworking service, but what

about just a coworking community?

And so that's where we're at now.

And it just has been building up.

We're almost.

Back to a hundred a hundred members.

I think as far as active members are
concerned, I want to say somewhere

like 10%, like maybe 10, that we
see on a regular basis today was.

Awesome for the viewing
party that we did.

You were there, which was great.

Thank you for coming we had a bunch
of other folks some of the regulars

they're like three or four regulars
that we see at most of the other events

but then new people showed up too.

So it was really great.

I think we had I want to say
There was probably about nine

or ten of us there, right?

Leo Dion (home): it was a good crowd.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah, so, so
and then there was a lot of chatter

on the, in the slack, in the
Apple events slack about it today,

people posting comments about it.

So I thought today was
probably the most successful.

event that we've had in a long
time with Swift and Road Studio.

And and it's just been in growing and
it's, I've noticed that it's really

taken off just within the last, I
want to say two to three months or so.

Because it went from, I was looking
at the numbers and and Josh Rock

of DoMarkz, he's been, with me
since the start on this project

and and I was telling him that just
commenting to him about the the

fact that it was like, what, 40?

And then 60 and then 80 and then just
this last week it was like 95 and so

we were just having this discussion
and it's remarkable to see that it's

really taken off and it's great to see
and people seem to really enjoy it.

We have The two weekly things that we do
are the just a kind of a coffee meetup.

We call it Swift Remote Coffee.

And that happens on Wednesdays at 9 a.

m.

Pacific.

And then we do a goal
setting meeting on Fridays.

And that happens at 12.

30 p.

m.

Pacific.

And the the coffee thing is just
everybody on zoom chatting, yeah, chit

chat, what's happening, usually we
get into the swift developer kind of

topics like frustrations with swift
UI or whatever the latest thing, or

actually lately it's been swift data
has been, and all the new beta stuff

that we've gotten from WWDC then on
Fridays, the goal setting meeting.

Has been really useful because
usually it's pretty lightly attended.

I want to say usually
four or five of us.

And then but we talk about we set
goals and then the next meeting you

say, well, what of those goals that
you set, did you achieve those?

Or not, and then.

What you plan to do for the next week.

And so, and if you keep that cycle up
then it really helps you to keep on

track with side projects or whatever.

Some people use it for education,
so they have educational goals.

So they're keeping those.

And somewhere along the line, we
started posting those in Slack too.

So to keep a little more accountability
and it helps you too, because if you

post it there, then you can refer
to it, the following week, like what

did I say that I was going to do?

And so.

Yeah, it seems to be helping.

A lot of folks are
achieving their goals.

So it's turned out to be a nice program

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

Sounds awesome.

I love it.

We'll post links in the show notes
so people can take a look and join.

Yeah, it's fantastic.

I think people should
definitely get involved.

So, was there anything else you
wanted to mention before we close out?

Evan Stone (guest): I don't think so.

I

Leo Dion (home): Are you
doing an Apple vision pro lab?

Evan Stone (guest): I did one in August.

Leo Dion (home): Awesome.

Evan Stone (guest): yeah, in
the middle of all, yeah, it was

awesome and I can't talk about it.

So, no what I no, what I can say, what
I can say is there was on developer.

apple.

com.

There was this article and I
can dig up the link but it had

Michael Simmons and it had Dave
Smith underscore Dave Smith on.

Listed in there.

A couple other developers
too about their reactions

to the Apple Vision Pro Lab.

And what I can say is, everything that
they say is exactly the way that I felt.

The only...

Leo Dion (home): just
drive there, right?

Cause you're in California.

Evan Stone (guest): Yes, I theoretically
I could, and if I do another round of

this, then I will go, I'll do the dawn
patrol, I'll probably have to leave here

at like 5am to get there, well enough
in time, if there's a traffic and that

kind of stuff in the Silicon Valley.

But but what I did was I
stayed over the night before.

And just went directly there and
it was a really nice experience.

Everybody's super
friendly, super helpful.

They had what was nice was they had
the mix of staff that there's going

to be staff on hand to help you.

So what was great is they had a kind
of a mix of folks that could help

based on any issues that came up.

But yeah, and especially the thing
that, that, That impacted me the most

was the thing that David Smith talks
about in his comments on that article.

Which is that the audible gasp
that happens because it, it does.

It's like, it's a breathtaking
experience the first time you

try it and it's nothing like
doing it on the simulator.

Leo Dion (home): Yeah.

I would

Evan Stone (guest): it's
a, it's vastly different.

Yeah.

Highly recommend.

If there's any way you can
get to, unfortunately, they

didn't have too many locations.

I, Cupertino is the only
one in the US, right?

So, yeah that's unfortunate.

Yeah,

Leo Dion (home): did you, I don't
know if you're going to answer this.

Did you come away with it with like
a, Oh yeah, moment where you're

like, okay, now I see I have an app
idea that makes total sense here.

Where it was before you were
just like, eh, like, I'm

not sure this is a good fit.

Evan Stone (guest): The, what
I had was the opposite effect.

I went in with at least one or
two ideas of what I wanted to do.

And as it turns out the
things that I wanted to do are

not possible to do with it.

And it's all, that's all
public because the, if you look

on the privacy information.

Document that they have in the
documentation for vision pro, there's

an article on the privacy protection,
which they specifically say in there

that you do not have access to cameras.

So the idea that I had involves using
cameras for like an AR kind of purpose.

And as per that document the
ideas that I had were actually.

Negated.

So it turns out that I came up
with less ideas, but I definitely

came away realizing that the
experience is much more than what

on the simulator, and it definitely
gets the juices flowing, right?

And you start thinking, well, okay,
if I can't do this, what can I do?

And so for that, I'm hoping I can get
another opportunity to go back because

the other issue that I ran into, and
this is what everybody knows, is that I

went when Xcode beta six was released.

And if you had a Swift data
application, you could not

deploy that to any hardware.

I couldn't deploy it to my phone.

If I tried to run it, yeah.

And so.

So I wasn't able to deploy
that to any devices.

Hint.

So So even though I can't talk
about my experience you could gather

from that if I can't deploy it to
a phone You can by extension see

think of what other devices I could

Leo Dion (home): This is not something
I'm aware of as a person who's been

doing Mac development on Xcode 15.

So I did not know you couldn't do that.

That's that

Evan Stone (guest): No, so so it was
literally just The beta it was beta

5 and beta 6 I believe definitely
beta 6 the What happened was they

released an iOS Release that had
a different beta interface or not

beta interface, but the binary

Leo Dion (home): what you mean.

Shared

Evan Stone (guest): for for Swift data.

Yeah they were, they didn't align.

And so, and they knew about
it, they copped to it.

So they agreed that it was a problem.

So it was resolved in beta seven, but by
that time I had already been to the lab.

So it was hopefully I can
get another shot at it.

So, so we'll see.

Anyway, but it was a great experience.

I highly recommend if anyone, if you're
close to Apple Park, or if you can just,

if you can finagle making it there,
I highly recommend going to a lab.

It's worth it.

Leo Dion (home): Thank you, Evan,
so much for coming on the show.

Where can people

Evan Stone (guest): you, Leo.

You can find where, can you find me?

Gosh, I think well, I'm,
there's swift remote studio.com.

There is the U R L for that.

And then on Mastodon you can find me.

I'm on let's see, Evan case
stone at iOS dev space.

So, that's my preferred.

I, I stick to Mastodon now.

I'm not doing much with
Twitter or x or whatever it is.

And any of the other things, I just it
doesn't interest me that much right now.

Maybe it'll settle down to the point
where where it will, I'm on Blue Sky and

I'm on threads and and still on Twitter,
but I don't ever check those things.

So it's pretty much just
masked it on at this point.

Leo Dion (home): Thank you again,
Evan, for coming on the show.

It's good to talk about this fun stuff.

Evan Stone (guest): Yeah, it was great.

Leo Dion (home): people
can find me on Twitter.

X, whatever.

At LeoGDion and Massadonim at
LeoGDion dot C at C dot IM.

My website.

Company websites break digit.

So take a look at there for all
past episodes and other articles

and stuff We've got some good
stuff on there thank you so much.

If you're watching this on youtube,
please like and subscribe if you're

listening to this Please post a
review on your podcast player evan.

You want to say something?

Evan Stone (guest): Could I make a plug
also for iOS death break, the podcast

Leo Dion (home): absolutely.

Yeah, and we're ios dev break.

We'll put a link in the show notes to
that how often do you put out episodes?

Evan Stone (guest): Very rarely,
but I just put one out today.

Actually, I recorded
yesterday, put it out today.

So, and the last one I did was
like right before depth up,

so, but I'm really trying to
pick up the cadence on that.

Doing

Leo Dion (home): that as well.

Evan Stone (guest): iOS dev break.com.

You can find it there.

Leo Dion (home): awesome.

Everybody have a good week.

Don't spend too much money.

I will talk to you later.

Have a good one.

Bye everyone.